did the messiah pre-exist?

is the pre-existance teaching scriptural?

torah – Teachings


Book

Chapter

Text

Notes


Berĕshith (Genesis)

2:7

and יהוה elohim formed the man out of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils breath of life. and the man became a living being. (The Scriptures 1998+)

  • The words “man became” indicate a definite beginning in which adam’s soul and body came to life at the same time

Berĕshith (Genesis)

5:1-2

1 this is the book of the genealogy of aḏam. in the day that elohim created man, he made him in the likeness of elohim.

2 male and female he created them, and he blessed them, and called their name ‘aḏam’ in the day they were created. (The Scriptures 1998+)


Berĕshith (Genesis)

9:6

6 whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood is shed, for in the image of elohim has he made man. (The Scriptures 1998+)


Berĕshith (Genesis)

15:18

18 on the same day יהוה made a covenant with aḇram, saying, “i have given this land to your seed, from the river of mitsrayim to the great river, the river euphrates (The Scriptures 1998+)


  • we know that abram’s seed only received the land much later, but when yahuah say he is giving you something that it is as if it is already done

nevi’im – Prophets


Book

Chapter

Text

Notes


Zechariah

12:1

The message of the word of יהוה against Yisra’ĕl. יהוה, stretching out the heavens, and laying the foundation of the earth, and forming the spirit of man within him, declares (The Scriptures 1998+)

Jeremiah

1:5

Before I formed you in the belly I knew you, and before you came out of the womb I did set you apart – I appointed you a prophet to nations.” (The Scriptures 1998+)

Isaiah

44:24

Thus said יהוה, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb, “I am יהוה, doing all, stretching out the heavens all alone, spreading out the earth, with none beside Me (The Scriptures 1998+)

Malachi

2:10

Have we not all one Father? Did not one Ěl create us? Why do we act treacherously against one another, to profane the covenant of the fathers? (The Scriptures 1998+)

ket’vim – Wisdom Literature


Book

Chapter

Text

Notes


Psalms

139:13 – 16

13 For You, You possessed my kidneys, You have covered me in my mother’s womb.

14 I give thanks to You, For I am awesomely and wondrously made! Wondrous are Your works, And my being knows it well.

15 My bones was not concealed from You, When I was shaped in a hidden place, Knit together in the depths of the earth.

16 Your eyes saw my unformed body. And in Your book all of them were written, The days they were formed, While none was among them. (The Scriptures 1998+)

  • My note

brit chadesha – New Covenant


Book

Chapter

Text

Notes


yoḥanan (john)

1:6

6 there was a man sent from elohim, whose name was yoḥanan (The Scriptures 1998+)

  • so did yohanan also pre-existed as he was also sent from elohim…

Romans

4:17

as it has been written, “I have made you a father of many nations” – in the presence of him whom he believed, even elohim, who gives life to the dead and calls that which does not exist as existing (The Scriptures 1998+)

  • see again genesis 15:18 above

eph`siyim (ephesians)

1:4

4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be set-apart and blameless before him, in love (The Scriptures 1998+)

  • did we all then pre-existed as all of us was also chosen from before the foundations of the world…

1 Peter

1:19-20

19 but with the precious blood of messiah, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless,

20 foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, but manifested in these last times for your sake’s (The Scriptures 1998+)

  • this is one of the texts used to prove a pre-existed messiah, but why do they not use the same rule for the verse above (eph 1:4)

Revelations

13:8

and all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the lamb slain from the foundation of the world (KJV)

  • according to this verse, we would have to believe that the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, but we know that he was only slain long after the foundation of the world was laid

John

1:1-3

1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with elohim, and the Word was elohim.

2 He was in the beginning with elohim.

3 all came to be through Him, and without H0im not even one came to be that came to be.


rendered correctly:


in the beginning was the divine plan/motive/thought, and the divine plan/motive/thought was with elohim, and the divine plan/motive/thought was elohim. the same (plan) was in the beginning with elohim. all things were made by it and without it was not anything made that was made.

see how the translator translate the words, Word / He and Him with capital letters, pushing us to belief that these words do reference to the messiah.

the word ‘word’ was translated from the greek word logos, and has the meaning of the following:

a) motive

b) mental faculty

c) reasoning

d) intent

e) thought

f) divine expression

a greek philosopher named heraclitus first used the term logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reasoning or plan which so-ordinates a changing universe

thus we have a historic precedent which shows the proper understanding of “logos” is as the “divine plan, thought, or motive” of the almighty creator.


the messiah and all off us pre-existed before the foundation of the earth was laid, because we all where part of the creators divine plan/motive/thought

John

1:14

14 and the divine plan became flesh and pitched his tent among us, and we saw his esteem, esteem as of an only brought-forth of a father, complete in favour and truth

  • when the creator spoke it happened – let there be light, let there be trees, let there be birds…and it all pitched their tents among us and we could see the esteem as of …

John

8:56-58

56 “your father aḇraham was glad that he should see my day, and he saw it and did rejoice.”

57 the yehuḏim, therefore, said to him, “you are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen aḇraham?”

58 יהושע said to them, “truly, truly, i say to you,

before aḇraham came to be, i am


  • what day did abraham saw – he saw the day of the new heavens and earth to come
  • messiah referring to the same place as what abraham saw – a place in future, the new heavens and earth, and before abraham will enter there the messiah will enter before him